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  #11  
Old 12-16-2005, 12:49 PM
Lanilion Lanilion is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

Blah..dont waste turns searching food....worst idea ever.
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  #12  
Old 12-16-2005, 09:56 PM
Jarlaxle Jarlaxle is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

I havn't had any luck figuring out how weapons work. I just build enough for my fighters and rangers and attack. I think that you are supposed to have more losses in battle if you don't have armor and the weapons add a small bonus to your attack.

I believe path said that if there are not enough weapons and armor for both fighters and rangers, the fighters got priority.
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  #13  
Old 12-17-2005, 05:24 PM
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Flame Flame is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

Should you still make extra for your pop? I mean, does pop still effect warring?
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2005, 10:12 AM
koldun koldun is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

Let's add some recent events to this post:

I've recently fought with a wood elf and have been defeated(and with a dark elf and won, anyway). I've been very surprised by my defeat for these reasons (that i think very reasonable ^^) :

- wood elves' scores are not detailed yet in HS help site but let's try to analize the situation:
1) i suppose they've strong rangers (assume 8 as centaurs).. well, my rangers score is 7, 1 point lower than wood elves'
2)on the other hand, wood elves fighters are weak, as i can suppose having my attacker used no fighters at all, while Knight Templars fighters get a 7.5 score in the HellSpawn help site. Everybody knows fighters cost twice as much as rangers and cannot search anythink, so I suppose they should be at last twice as strong of them
3)So, I think a full KT fighters army should be (7.5x2)/8= 1.9 almost twice as strong as a wood elf full rangers army of SAME size. A balanced KT fighters/rangers army should anyway be 1.45 stronger than a woodelves' one.

- turns played by my attacker (wood elves) were 1/3 than my current ones... it means, even if we should assume I'm a bad player and he's a good one, lower troops eperience, worse weapons and worse armors (if i sum up all turns i've spent in weapons and armors research -at full efficency- i can reach his total turns played).

- I've a lot of farms compared with my land, it means a lot of troops, probably more than a similar-score-player.

- I've elite troops in defense, more than 10% of my land. Thay cost a huge amount of gold and cannot attack, so I expect they prove exceptionally strong in defense.

-And, of course, I've castles and walls, that should grant me a victory against similar strength attacking armies, even if wood elves' one should not be one of those for all the things I've written.


So... even assuming I'm missing or misunderstanding something, or that some of my issues are not completely correct, I honestly cannot understand why i've been defeated. Are wood eleves so incredibly more powerful than other races?
Are war results a random function in this game? Please someone should explain me what's going on...
  #15  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:19 PM
Thangor Thangor is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

Well for one thing..your assumption about more farms = more troops is way off. If 40% of your land is really farms then you simply do not have enough population to work them. Your pop can only work so many farms. Also, there is waste to factor in. Your assumption about you having more turns meaning you have better experience on your troops and more and better weapons and armor is also wrong. If you have the proper builds built you in the right ratio to you total land it is much easier to get troop experience. Pathfinder says weapons and armor make a difference but as of yet no players i know have seen and remarkable difference in having them at high or low expierince just having them seems to be the most important part.
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2005, 02:56 PM
Jarlaxle Jarlaxle is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

[size=large]First Point: the game is not fair, nor is it intended to be. All races are not equal and it wouldn't make sense if they were since they are not equal in "power" in the general fantasy genre.[/size]

[size=large]Second Point: Balancing one aspect often unbalances another. For example, rangers are cheap so that recovery isn't as hard to accomplish. If recovery were too hard to do, then allowing races like hill giants to have three attacks per round would be too overpowering. Not allowing them to have three attacks is boring. So, something gives.[/size]

[size=large]Third Point: I don?t think those numbers for templar fighters is correct. I don?t know that, but I doubt their accuracy.[/size]
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2005, 03:19 PM
koldun koldun is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

To thangor:
1)thank you for your farms issue. I think it's true what you say about "not enough people to work them" but please consider that:
- I have very high entertainment so I have a lot of population compared with my land
- I have notice that, if my pupolation grows my food production raise, so it seems my farms are "full"... but If I build more farms I produce more food, even with equal population, so it seems my farms have some more space for farmers...


2)I have 20% of my land in Training Fields.... it seems to me a more than decent amount for troops training. Assuming the elf has more experience than me is to assume he has 60% of his land in training fields... i think it's hard to assume.

3) You know the maximum level of increase for weapons is +0,05 per turn at maximum efficiency. It's impossible for whatever race to reach shortswords without spending at least 600 turns reserching. That's what I ws trying to explain in my previous post. I'm realizing now that there is another possibility: someone with higher score has traded to my neighbour powerful weapons. Unfair but possible.

4) Of course, all my fighers rangers and clerics were equipped with weapons and armors...


Jarlaxle: thanks again. I think you're true about the wrong score of KT. I'm afraid you're right. For the rangers and recovery issue, I havn't understood it, can you explain it better? And yes, I know that in a fantasy world some races are more poewrful than others, but I also think a game to be enjoyed by everybody should achieve the balance of power, and give importance to ability of playing, alliances, strategy, without creating a "first choice race"... or after some months you'll se 90% of players using woodelves (go and see what race are using the first 15 players in ranking).
I think turns are born to "rebalance" races strengths, that's why HG have 3 turns and cobolds I suppose have at least 9.

That's my opinion. Have fun!
  #18  
Old 12-20-2005, 09:51 PM
Jarlaxle Jarlaxle is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

Rangers are key to getting back on your feet after taking a pummeling from a three-attack race (unless you are yourself a multie attack per turn race). If rangers were expensive, then recovering would be tuff and by the time one recovered only to get smacked again, the joy in playing at all would possibly decrease to the point of no return.

I didn't mean to imply that some sense of balance is never looked for, but some races will always be dominant. The race of dominance at this point is probably vampires. Certainly wood elves are pimps but their econ is nothing compared to a vampire. Dwarves used to be the bad boys of Narmir. Things change slowly in the balance game. Usually when something does change it is very dramatic.
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  #19  
Old 12-21-2005, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Send attack!

OK, alot of ppl play woodies because they can land farm very well so raise score pretty fast.And they war mainly with rangers so yes, it is easier for them to recover but rangers can help all races do that. They also have a good defense and if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. If you are attacking a woodie then you are venturing into a heavily wooded forest where you wouldn't even be able to the elves that are sitting up in trees and behind bushes attacking you. Woodies are also known to be able to war decently tho I heard that had been weakened some. They have decent magic, probably from being elves and you're not factoring in the point system. So, you have no idea where their points are and points do work. I'm pretty sure you don't need to worry about 90% of the players having woodies either. Even when they were the IT race, 90% of the rankings wasn't even close to being 90% woodie.
Oh, one more thing, to know if you have the right amount of pop to work your farms, you need 33.3 to work 1 complete farm.
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  #20  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:34 AM
koldun koldun is offline
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Default Re: Send attack!

thank you very much for your comments and for the 33.3 rule.

In the end i think the problem is that in the current version of the game weapon research is not implemented, so having a shortsword or a club is defenetly the same. And it's a pity for i've spent a lot of turns researching new weapons and armors. If so, i think programmers should wait before putting a no-use button in the game...

And, remeber I've been attacked by wood elves, and they shouldn't be so strong in open combat versus Knights I think... especially if the knight is wearing heavy armor and they have clubs in their hand ^^ but it's a game, and a nice one anyway

K
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