Narmir - Land of Magic and Conquest Narmir - Land of Magic and Conquest Narmir - Land of Magic and Conquest  

Go Back   Narmir - Land of Magic and Conquest > Narmir > General Discussions


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-04-2006, 06:59 PM
Vlad Vlad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 111
Default A rare thaught

So I wwas sitting aroun in chat and realized i have seen a new forum topic in a while... so this is my attempt

I was thinking about the spells we have available, and the effects.

You know how if you have animals cast on you, and people cast beasts... the beasts eat the animals.... how come casting animals on a dire doesnt work like create food to them?


There, thats my random wondering... what is yours?
  #2  
Old 04-04-2006, 08:23 PM
Jarlaxle Jarlaxle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 125
Default Re: A rare thaught

If I told you to count to infinity and call me when you are done, then you would never call me. Therefore any condition which would allow you to call me would be an impossible condition because it would contradict the above premise that the call would never be made.



Integers (all whole numbers and their negatives) are infinite in number; they go infinitely forward and backward. The whole numbers (0, 1, 2, 3, ?) are infinite too but only in the positive direction. Odd as it may seem, both sets of numbers are the same size; there are just as many whole numbers as there are integers even though the integers go to infinity in both directions. Consequently, the negative numbers of the set of Integers is also infinite in size.



Assume that time is like the integers in that it has a past (negatives), a present (the number zero) and a future (positives). If you had always been counting then today you could call me for you would have been counting for an infinite amount of time which is enough time to have counted to infinity. But, making the call would contradict our premise that states that the call could not be made. Therefore an infinite regress in time is an absurdity. Time itself must have had a beginning.
__________________
  #3  
Old 04-04-2006, 08:40 PM
Acid Acid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 158
Default Re: A rare thaught

Of course, your assuming that time is 1-demensional.
  #4  
Old 04-05-2006, 01:43 PM
Jarlaxle Jarlaxle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 125
Default Re: A rare thaught

Time is one of many dimensions and is therefore by definition "1-dimensional".
__________________
  #5  
Old 04-05-2006, 03:32 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: A rare thaught

There is a flaw in your premise.
If you had always been counting then today you could call me for you would have been counting for an infinite amount of time which is enough time to have counted to infinity.

Even if you have always been counting you still would not have had enough time to count to infinity. There is never enough time to count to infinite, no matter when you started.
  #6  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:20 PM
Jarlaxle Jarlaxle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 125
Default Re: A rare thaught

Also, more dimensions has nothing to do with whether an entity is infinite or not. For example, a line can be finite or infinite in length. Adding another dimension doesn't change it from finite to infinite or visa versa. All it would do is change it from a line to a plane.
__________________
  #7  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:28 PM
Jarlaxle Jarlaxle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 125
Default Re: A rare thaught

Quote:
Crenshaw wrote:
There is a flaw in your premise.
If you had always been counting then today you could call me for you would have been counting for an infinite amount of time which is enough time to have counted to infinity.

Even if you have always been counting you still would not have had enough time to count to infinity. There is never enough time to count to infinite, no matter when you started.
Not only would you have had enough time to count to infinity, you could have counted to infinity an infinite number of times!

Imagine a hotel that is infinitely elongated. It has an infinite number of rooms. It is one corridor of rooms that stretch out forever, never ending. Now imagine that the hotel is filled. All the rooms are occupied. No room is vacant. The sign on the front door of the Hilbert Hotel says two conflicting things: No Vacancies, and Available Rooms For Rent. A bone weary traveler comes to that door and asks if there are any vacancies. ?No,? says the owner of the Hilbert Hotel. ?Cantcha read the sign?? ?Yes, I can,? says our traveler, ?But your sign also says rooms are available. Shouldn?t you change that sign?? ?No, of course not I do have rooms available. Do you want a room or dontcha?? Confused, the traveler says, ?Yes. I am very tired.? ?Ok,? says the proprietor of the establishment. ?Wait a moment.? And he makes a phone call. ?Room 1? I need you to knock on the door or Room 2 and send him over to Room 3, so he can send the occupant of Room 3 to Room 4, and so on, and so on. Those people know the drill.? Then he hangs up. ?You?re room will be ready in a few minutes. As soon as the current occupant moves next door, I?ll have the maid go in, tidy it up and it?ll be ready for you. Oh, one more thing - I may call you unexpectedly and ask you to move next door and send the occupant there next door and so forth.?

The Hilbert Hotel is full - it has an infinite number of occupants, and there are no vacancies. If a vacancy must be made for a new individual visitor, it is done as described above. Now here it gets even weirder. Imagine a star system in the galaxy is about to go supernova. They need to move their people out of the local solar system and colonize another part of space. It can take time to terraform a new set of worlds, and what with intra-galactic treaties being the sticky things that they are nowadays, there?s no nearby inhabited world that can take such a large number of immigrants all at once. Where can these poor aliens go and have a place to stay fast? The Hilbert Hotel! A call is placed. ?Is this the Hilbert Hotel?? ?Yes.? ?Do you have any vacancies?? ?No, we?re all full at the moment.? ?Oh no! But you were my only hope! How am I going to get all the billions of people in my multi-inhabited planetary system to an offworld habitation before my local sun explodes? I need a major cosmic flophouse right now!? ?No problem. We?ll make room for you.? ?You can?! That?s great! Do you want to know how many people will be arriving?? ?No, it doesn?t matter. I?m going to make an infinite amount of room right now. Your rooms will be ready when you arrive.? The proprietor hangs up the phone and programs his computer to e-mail all the infinite rooms in his hotel. The massive, infinite e-mailing sends to each occupant this message, ?Please multiply your current room number by two, vacate your present room, and go to that new room number (i.e., the occupant of room 1, go to room 2, the occupant of room 2, go to room 4, occupant of room 3 to room 6, room 4 to room 8, 5 to 10 and so on).? When the newly homeless colonists from the unfortunate star system arrive, the sign does not say No Vacancies. It says ?Infinite Vacancies. Rooms Available.? They are all sent to odd-numbered rooms, all of which just became available.

But wait! It gets even weirder than that. On another side of the universe, in a galaxy far, far away, another Hilbert Hotel is about to meet an untimely demise. A black hole has wandered into the neighborhood and is about to swallow the hotel. The owner of this establishment calls our Hilbert Hotel. ?I have an emergency! I have a full Hilbert Hotel and I need to vacate the whole thing fast and move all my infinite number of guests somewhere quick. We need you to make room!? ?All right. But they are going to get odd numbered rooms.? ?Who cares!??! Just get them ready!? ?You got it.? And the process is repeated. But wait! The night is still young!! Another seven Hilbert Hotels call! The black holes are all over the place! Our space-time continuum is under attack by the Dark Overlord of the Nether World! Our Hilbert Hotel is in the only part of the universe where the black holes aren?t swarming like cosmic locusts! Infinitely more vacancies must be made available! No problem!!! This is a Hilbert Hotel! All the guests get e-mailed: multiply your room number by ten (add a zero to the number which is your room number) and go to that room. The vacancies are made, and later, when the rest of the hundreds of billions of galaxies? quadrillions of inhabitants call and ask, ?Do you have any vacancies,? the answer they get is ?YES!? for there are lots of left-over, unused vacancies after that last couple of mass moves. In fact, there are infinitely more vacancies now than were before these additions. But note - even though the hotel is no longer full, there are no less people now than before. Note further, though - even with all these additions, there are no more people in the Hilbert Hotel now than there were before either! The amount is the same - infinity.
__________________
  #8  
Old 04-05-2006, 06:45 PM
OrbofThralni OrbofThralni is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 252
Default Re: A rare thaught

Counting from 0-1 can actually be considered counting to infinity. I say this because there are infinately many numbers between o and 1 and 1 and 2, etc. For example: in between the numbers 0 and 1 are .1 or .01, or .0000001, etc. Therefore, counting from 0 to 1 can be considered counting to infinity... however, the we do not actually say those numbers.
__________________

Target\'s fighting spirit down. Calculating BP, SP, and DNN.
  #9  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:07 PM
Vlad Vlad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 111
Default Re: A rare thaught

hrmmm... always these infinity debates

C'mon, I want to hear peoples game related thoughts ...

I dont mean to say that the infinity debates are bad, just that they go on forever...

and Jin. if countingfrom 0 -1 is going to infinity... how come when i have 1 exp on my char i cant evolve?... since thats infinity jk of course

Later ~~~
  #10  
Old 04-05-2006, 07:17 PM
Jarlaxle Jarlaxle is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 125
Default Re: A rare thaught

Quote:
OrbofThralni wrote:
Counting from 0-1 can actually be considered counting to infinity. I say this because there are infinately many numbers between o and 1 and 1 and 2, etc. For example: in between the numbers 0 and 1 are .1 or .01, or .0000001, etc. Therefore, counting from 0 to 1 can be considered counting to infinity... however, the we do not actually say those numbers.
Wrong Jin. There are more than an infinite number of numbers between zero and one. There are an uncountable number of numbers between zero and one; meaning you can not even tell me what the smallest number larger than zero is. You can start at zero but you can go no farther because you can't say what the next number is.
__________________
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.